Dominican Fr. Albert Nolan in his office in his office in Johannesburg, South Africa
National Catholic Reporter, July 20, 2007
The subtitle of your book is A Spirituality of Radical Freedom. Could you explain that?
What has always struck me about Jesus is his holistic spirituality. It was both individual and social. He looked at the needs of his society but also at the needs of individuals, and he didn’t separate the two. I see people separating these too much.
A component of the hunger for spirituality today is a hunger for healing. The opposite of healing is condemnation: making people feel guilty, imposing things on people, telling them what they must do and the terrible consequences if they don’t.
Jesus was not like that. Jesus saw people as certainly having faults and problems, but more as the wounded who are in need of a healer or doctor, but not condemnation.
In his spiritual writings Fr. Henri Nouwen pointed out that though we’re all wounded and hurt, perhaps in different ways, we can help one another toward healing. To present salvation in terms of healing would be a way postmodern people could understand it.
Jesus was an amazingly free person. Many see the church as constraining, preventing people from being free, as generally restrictive. I think that’s a mistake. Jesus was not like that.
That’s the reason why the word “freedom” is there in the subtitle of my new book. I also added “radical” because I wanted to point out that it wasn’t freedom in quite the same way many use that word.
We develop a superficial kind of freedom, which in the end is not freedom at all, because we just imprison ourselves more. It’s not the freedom to choose any brand of toothpaste you like. What people too often seek is freedom of the ego instead of freedom from the ego.
Freedom of the ego means that I can do whatever I like in relation to others. The more my will triumphs, the more free I am. That is nonsense, illusion.
The freedom Jesus was talking about and the freedom I write about is the freedom from the ego. In other words, I’m not tied down to my own selfishness. It’s the freedom to do God’s will, to love other people, to be one with them and with the whole universe. It’s the freedom to work for the common good and not just my selfish idea of what’s good for me.
I think our whole economic system is based upon selfishness, on profit-taking and private property ownership, to such an extent that someone can accumulate much more than they can ever use, while others starve.
When growth means growth for some and not for others, that growth becomes cancerous. It’s not an overall growth for the common good.
Thus, individualism is in crisis. It is being criticized from a Third World perspective. Other cultures look at ours and see it as selfish, self-centered. Of course, there are people around the world who imitate it, but psychologists are seeing individualism as a problem. People who get involved in a deeper spirituality are seeing it as a problem. The church, through its social teaching, is certainly beginning to see individualism as destructive.
In my book I discuss globalization as the growth in concern for justice and for peace. I explain in my book that globalization can be neutral, but so far globalization has been spread from above. It is the rich and powerful that promulgate a particular economic system and understanding of trade.
There is another kind of globalization that comes from below, a resistance to this top-down globalization. People come together when they want to struggle for justice. They have been able to demonstrate, for example, with people from all around the world and from many different organizations because of the Internet. That globalizes the struggle against imperialism and oppression.
Poor women and indigenous people are not just allowing someone else to speak on their behalf. They speak for themselves. They develop organizations and movements, and these come together in the world’s social forum now so that they have more of a voice in the world. There’s a good dynamic here between the individual and society.
We have to start with getting in touch with the reality about ourselves; we can then begin to see the truth of the world. We begin to see the world right side up by beginning to see ourselves right side up, beginning to see what’s really happening in all humility, understanding ourselves rightly.
We begin to recognize our motives. We recognize that we project our problems onto others, that we have a false image of ourselves and that we’re projecting that false image. We recognize that there are good things in ourselves too.
Until we see what’s happening within, we are, as Jesus would say, people with a huge logs in our eyes. We’re blinded by something we need to remove in order to see clearly, to see that we’re not the center of the world.
I don’t put the emphasis on sin and guilt because I believe Jesus didn’t do that. I’m not talking about the traditional examination of conscience, of what sins have I committed. That kind of discovery leads to guilt. Then you begin to reject part of yourself.
When you’re simply trying to get to know yourself without imputing guilt, you begin to see what’s actually happening. You see there are things that perhaps you aren’t proud of, that your motives are selfish, recognizing that’s part of who and what you are.
Again, Jesus did not go around blaming people, so we mustn’t blame ourselves all the time. We must rather just see what’s there, because that will lead to action.
Spirituality and the mystery of the universe
A 50-light-year-wide view of the central region of the Carina Nebula, where a maelstrom of star birth -- and death -- is taking place. The immense nebula is an estimated 7,500 light-years away (photo: NASA/ESA, N. Smith (University of California, Berkeley)
You write in your book about the growth of interest in Catholic mysticism. What does that growth mean to you?
There has been an unprecedented interest in mysticism in the last 40 years. Previously the Catholic mystics would have been regarded as people who were weird or different, and they didn’t have any contribution to make to the development and progress of people. You had to be scientific [to make that kind of contribution] and they were not.
I think the reason they are appreciated today is precisely because they question the doctrinal rigidity of the institutional church. More important, they have come into their own today because they talk about religious experience. They are not imposing teachings from another time or people. The fact that they speak of real personal experience makes all the difference.
These direct experiences of God lead to certain personal characteristics. Mystics become happy, joyful, confident, humble, loving, free and secure. Today we look at these consequences of the direct religious experiences of God and we want those same fruits in our lives. People are not interested in proofs of the existence of God. People are interested in anyone who says he or she has experienced God.
Originally, mysticism and prophecy or work for justice were all one. They were not separated from one another. That separation came with modernity, with the age of reason and enlightenment, where you split secular concerns from religious ones. That’s a long story of its own, but people do not want to divide things up this way any more.
This hunger for spirituality, for direct experience of God, is one of the significant signs of our times. Modernity placed all the emphasis on science and the possibility that scientists can know everything, saying that the material world is all that exists or matters. People now look for something beyond the material, beyond science and technology for answers.
Also, we have a whole new understanding of the universe and, therefore, of ourselves, of who we are and how we fit in that has great potential for the future and potential as well for moving us far beyond selfishness.
We are living on the edge of chaos, but because of a giant leap forward in our knowledge and evolution, there seems also to be a possibility of real advances. The principal thing I have in mind here is the new science, the science of Einstein, where we understand the universe as unfolding, starting with the Big Bang and moving forward. We are trying to understand this mystery of the universe around us.
As a result, we’re going to have a different scientific outlook in the future. It will make a big difference to faith and religion. There will be an important place for faith and religion, and a hunger for a new way of looking at them.
This whole new way of understanding the universe is a tremendous opportunity because it’s also a new way of understanding ourselves, of how we fit in, and of how the individual relates to society.
The certainties of the past
Muslim women at a rally in
Jordan show a copy of the Quran.
You mention a return to the past and fundamentalism. We see that in the Catholic church. We see that among Protestant fundamentalists. We see it among Jews and certainly among Muslims. There is this need to hold on and to become rigid somehow.
Yes ... because in a world that is very insecure, and where all certainties, dogmas and doctrines are being questioned, inevitably there will be some people who seek this security in trying to go back to the absolute certainties that might have been there in the past.
Those certainties weren’t necessarily there, but some people feel there were absolute certainties in the past, so they want to go back. It’s perfectly understandable that, in a development like this into the postmodern world, there will be some people who want to go backward.